Love this episode, especially because of the wonderful performance of Brad Dourif. In another actor's hands, Brother Edward could easily become a Mitchell. I also liked the little scene between Garibaldi and Delenn, as it's a good example of how to do exposition right. Delenn has an excuse for not knowing what the death of personality is, unlike in some of the other more clunky exposition moments in the series, like Marcus explaining the ranger pin to Delenn and Lennier.

Two things have always bothered me about this episode, though. Firstly, what on Earth is that stupid little plastic thing that Brother Edward made? Brother Theo and Sheridan talk about how beautiful it is, but it looks like rubbish. Was the whole props department off sick that day?

Also, how did they manage to mind-wipe someone so quickly and who on the station was qualified to do so? I know it works for story reasons, but a case like that would need to go through the court system and B5 doesn't seem to have a "resident" teep at that point.

Anyway, love the podcast. It's bringing back such great memories of how much fun it was to watch this the first time around and speculate with other fans about what was going to happen next. I've seen some of these episodes more times than I care to think about, but you've still been able to find things I hadn't noticed or hadn't thought about in the same way. Kudos to you both.

Lastly, on theme songs for characters. Back when Season Two was airing, I made a mix tape with snippets of dialogue from the show and songs that were related somehow, even if only in my own twisted mind.

A cheeky little theme song I thought of for Delenn was "Gimme Gimme Gimme" by Abba. Sample lyrics: "There's not a soul out there, no one to hear my prayer. Gimme gimme gimme a man after midnight. Won't somebody help me chase the shadows away? Gimme gimme gimme a man after midnight. Help me through the darkness to the break of the day."

It seemed like just the thing she'd be thinking as she waited for the sex spaniel to take her out on another little date.

Also came up with a love theme for Susan and Talia, an obscure Monkees song "Through the Looking Glass". Sample lyrics: "You call my name, then you run for protection. I reach out to hold you, but it's just your reflection through the looking glass."

Anyhow, keep up the good work. I'll keep listening.

PieMan70 wrote:


Please tell me you keep headphones in? I shall be forced to curb my raucous behaviour otherwise....!

Oh, and HAI Ivanina! Welcome to the forum, and to the Babble On Project!

Oh definitely, although my youngest would probably be Ok my 3 year old picks thing up far too well (She learned to Say Babylon 5 last year, I was proud until she used it to tell me "Daddy, I don't want to watch Babylon 5" Naughty Step)

Ok, catching up with this now and I've just seen the first two episodes of season 3. Not listened to the podcast yet so apologies if I'm just repeating opinions.

Matters of Honor

Good opening to the new season and rather doomy new opening titles but at least they have the conviction to play to fans rather than trying to rush through a potted history of the show for newcomers. The cast pictures look a bit 'school photo day' though.

Loved Garibaldi's speech about what he needs to know and it reminded me of something Sir Humphrey might have said in Yes, Minister. Keffer's last footage seems to be playing on all the screens in B5 like a snuff video. B5 now has a new all purpose meeting room too. The battle with the shadow ship is wonderful stuff and so gripping that Lennier even wants to submit a proposal!

Overall, very good series opener that brings you up to date and back into the storyline right from that great sweeping opening shot to the fade away of Delenn telling the story of the shadows. Kosh is turning into a bit of bitch though.

Convictions

So many good moments in here and I love that so many races are now flocking to B5 because of the religious visitation. The techno monks are interesting and Brother Theo shushed Ivanova and managed to keep his life! I notice a couple of in-jokes too with Netters Syndrome and I wonder if Garibaldi's line "saying it doesn't make it so" is a little dig at Star Trek: TNG.

The bomber went a bit OTT but I think the storyline still has resonance today and the concept didn't turn out to be as hackneyed as I thought it would be especially with Londo and G'Kar stuck in the lift. Will they talk out their differences and learn to love each once more? Nope not at all and Katsulas is brilliant and very unsettling throughout especially after the comedy scene with Garibaldi. Londo's scene by Lennier's bedside is also brilliant but what a coincidence that both he and Delenn are on the same ship. More uses for the meeting room too. I wonder if the B5 branch of the WI also hire it out.

Anyway, another excellent episode

Hi, Matt and Gillian. I've got a quick follow-up comment on "Passing Through Gethsemene" and the amount of time it took to execute the death of personality on Brother Malcolm. Capital cases can and should take longer than other criminal cases because of the stakes involved. Of the 18 people executed in the US thus far this year, the average number of years between their executions and the crimes for which they were convicted was approximately 18. That total includes one man who waived his right to some of his ordinary appeals, thus shortening the amount of time before sentence was carried out to 6 years. (The public defenders tried to appeal on his family's behalf anyway, on the grounds that he was mentally incompetent, but they executed him anyway.) Even with such a lengthy appeals process, there remains substantial risk that an innocent person can be executed for another person's crime (google Carlos DeLuna). According to the Innocence Project, since 1992, 17 people on death row in the US have been exonerated through the use of DNA testing.

Admittedly, the US criminal justice system is shit and Earthforce may have found some good ways of expediting the process, but it doesn't seem likely that they could have shortened it to a matter of weeks without some serious compromises in due process. As viewers, we know the command staff on B5 well enough that we wouldn't believe they'd coerce someone to make a confession (unless he may know something about what happened to a loved one) or misidentify a suspect due to their resemblance to someone else ("bald with a bone on his head") or mishandle evidence. However, no judge worth his salt is going to take all that on faith.

Anyway, none of that really detracts from my love of this episode and, as I said before, it works for story reasons. B5 fans are relatively patient creatures, but we wouldn't want to wait until the final episode of Season Five to find out what happened to Brother Edward's killer. It would kinda lose its punch.

Love the show. I've finally gotten caught up on all the podcasts since I started listening a couple months ago. You two have been making me giggle on the way to work every day. Keep up the good work.

Hello. Finally felt compelled to sign up to the forum after hearing your latest podcast.

On the subject of Passing Through Gethsemane...

I agree. As a piece of Sci-fi, this is great. You could place this in any scifi setting, and it would stand out, not only as a great piece of drama, but also because its asks some hard questions, most of which you picked up on. And especially falling into the carefully laid trap at the end. JMS showing his skills as an evil manipulator there.

Just really wanted to focus on one particular bit. The part about hanging around at Gethsemane, and the courage of doing so, knowing it will cost you your life (you were right. It was a question I asked myself).

Now, I think this is a great story, but just so you know where I am coming from. I was raised as a christian, and sent to church each week, until I was old enough to say I really dont believe in this. I would now consider myself an antitheist - I do not like the concept of organised religion at all. But, I believe that maybe it is possible there was a real person Jesus was based upon. Regardless, his message is a good one...

Anyway, Jesus knew what was going to happen to him. Yes he was going to die a horrible death, but he knew for a fact that he would also save the souls of every human being who was to come after him, and live at his father’s side in paradise for all eternity. Now, I guess if you have to go out, that’s not a bad price.

Now if I was in that position with my beliefs, there is no way I would hang around, because I do not believe in any sort of life after death. I am selfish, and a bit of a coward, and not willing to die for any set of principles I can think of off the top of my head. But I guess if I was Jesus, and knew for a fact I would have eternal life granted to me, it would make the decision to stay a lot easier. Perhaps that cheapens the whole story or message of self-sacrifice… Because in the end, what have you really given up.

I do have a point to make though… (and here it is)… Remember back in Comes the Inquisitor. Delen was asked what she would do in a similar situation. And she said she was willing to die forgotten and alone for a single soul, not to be a martyr or hero with her name echoing down the ages. For me that is far more courageous, to give your life and have no recognition for it.
So I think a better question is not who would have the courage to remain at Gethsemane, but who would be willing to die in some crappy part of down below, with no one knowing the sacrifice you had made. Who would have the courage to do that? Would calling an episode Passing Through Down Below sound a bit... (I dunno, you insert the joke, this is just my first post)

Anyway, hope that’s okay for feedback for now. I am not watching the show with you, but I have seen it through more times that I care to admit (and have actually gone through the whole thing in the time since you started). Keep up the good work

I don't mean to make light of the heavy meaning of this episode, but these are the kind of things I think about.

Some follow-up notes after the Babble-On Project discussion:

If I'm not mistaken, Franklin's examination of Lyta in this episode revealed, among other things, that Lyta had slightly elevated oxygen levels in her blood. I don't think anyone here has mentioned this, but, is this probably explained later by Lyta's gills? Perhaps in the human sector they operate in some way that gives her more oxygen intake.

Secondly, I know it's a Babble-On Project running gag that Sheridan is obsessed with fruit, but does it actually come across that way in the TV show? I keep on missing it when I watch the episodes, but from what people are saying the character of Sheridan is found in the vicinity of oranges and other fruit repeatedly on-screen. I guess I ought to watch out for this in the future

Speaking of which, I have a B5 episode to catch up on before the next BOP. When are you recording?

EricxDu wrote:


Tonight. In about 90 minutes!

Damn, too late to catch the podcast.

Oh well, Voices of Authority. Some very light moments for an episode with such dark subject matter, with quite a few fun moments, in particular Ivanova and Marcus bantering and the comedy touches to the Sherridan/Political officer/Nightwatch story.

If anyone would go out and try and annoy an ancient, powerful and unpredictable alien race it would be Ivanova.

A thought on the political officer woman, I still after all there years don't quite know if she's a true believer or just a full on PR drone. Tempted to go for the latter when she almost matter of factly states that "We re-wrote the dictionary" but on the other hand. Well I have a mate who works in marketing for a large drinks company. Decent chap and all but he has very much bought into his company's line on all things drink related. When teh whiskey society criticises his company, it is them who are worng, and the discussions I've had with him as a member of CAMRA occasionally got quite heated. Thing is, I wondered if he believed the company line or if he literally couldn't switch off his marketing hat. I wondered if teh same was true for tarty political officer.

Either way, the way Earthdome has re-classified the Unemployed and dissafected as mentally ill or anarchists is worryingly similar to the way the current govt dismissed the medical profession's rejection of the NHS reforms as the actions of "Trade Unionists and Vested interests" or indeed how the press (and govts) will label the unemployed as "Scroungers" and indeed on the other foot the govt as "Toffs" its an easy way to shut down debate by trying to lessen the relevance of people with opposing opinions and should always be worrying.

Dust, Well Bester is always worth admission price alone. The G'Kar/Londo plot though, whoa. So much in that. Particularly touching at the end when Londo tells Vir never to let them make him a joke. I woudl say even at the beginning when Londo is spinning Vir's report to be more palatable at court he's protecting Vir, as if he wants to promote him in society without tainting him with the horror and power games that social climbing entail. Always nice to see there is hope for Londo yet.

Doing a great job guys, well done and thanks

Ok, still catching up with these. I'll put the podcast on in a bit.

A Day in the Strife

Since you mentioned the rotating heads in the credits I keep thinking of the Family Guy running gag about the various programme ads, time for all all new 'slowly rotating black guy' or 'Shovin' Buddies'. The transport meeting was a nice framing device and we get to know more about Sheridan's character. He would rather be a soldier than a diplomat but straddles both. The probe was an interesting idea left pretty much open ended as to whether all the questions were answered correctly or it was just a Berserker of course since this is Babylon 5 and it was written by JMS I guess that may not be the last we hear of it. Londo and G'Kar's storylines were also good and I loved that Na'Far's bodyguard knew Sheridan and that he felt compelled to cut himself with the sword to complete its purpose. Nice to see G'Kar getting some support and Londo caring for Vir. It also seems that Franklin is more of a dick on drugs. A low key episode but very enjoyable.

Passing Through Gethsemane

Another good episode and Brad Dourif does a great job as Brother Edward. Louis Turrene is great as well especially in the garden scene as he introduces Brother Malcolm and I agree it did seem a short turnaround for a mind wipe. It felt a bit clunky in places though, Babylon 5 is normally a bit smoother.
Perhaps I was just expecting the mind wipe idea to be introduced earlier. Nice to see Lyta back too and her work for Kosh is certainly going to be interesting. Watching Londo here makes me realise just how much his actions in the war are affecting every part of his life now. Another good episode